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POLICY: Sicko and Healthcare Reform by Maggie Mahar with UPDATE
Michael Moore’s “Sicko” does two things very well.
First, the film makes it clear that in the U.S., even if you have health insurance, this does not mean that you are “covered.” Everyone knows that many Americans are uninsured. But now, millions of middle-class Americans are beginning to realize that they are UNDERinsured, and Moore drives that point home.
For-profit-insurers spend a great deal of time designing policies that will limit their “losses”—i.e. limit the amount that they have to pay out. These “Swiss cheese” policies are filled with holes: for example, a policy may pay for surgery, but not rehabilitation after surgery. And this omission is deliberate. As a former claims adjuster tells Moore, when an insurer denies payment, “You’re not slipping through the cracks. They made the crack and are sweeping you toward it.”
Secondly, “Sicko” underlines the signal difference between healthcare in the U.S. and healthcare in other countries: the citizens of other countries take a collective view of the problem. Or as Moore puts it, they realize that when it comes to sickness and dying, all of us are vulnerable. “In the end, we truly are all in the same boat . . . they live in a world of ‘we’ not ‘me.’”
Of course people in the U.K. Canada and France know that healthcare is not free. (And contrary to what some of Moore’s critics say, he does not pretend that it is.) But since they think of healthcare as a right—something we all deserve simply because we are human—it seems to them fair that, “You pay according to your means [through taxes] and receive according to your needs.” In this, national health programs that are funded by taxes resemble Medicare: the higher your salary, the more you pay into Medicare. The sicker you are, the more you will take out in benefits. If you’re lucky, you put in more than you take out.
What “Sicko” doesn’t do is focus on the waste in our system. As Jonathan Weiner observes below, we can’t afford to pay for everything that someone might possibly want. We need to be sure that we are getting value for our healthcare dollars. In one case, Moore tells the story of a man dying of kidney cancer. Desperate to save him, his wife valiantly tries to persuade insurers to pay for new treatments –including a bone-marrow transplant that the insurance company calls “experimental.” But the insurer refuses, and a few weeks later her husband dies. This is one of the saddest moments in the film—both husband and wife are very appealing.
Yet it is not clear that the insurer was wrong to refuse the cover the bone-marrow transplant. It is very difficult to tell from the few details given in the film whether it might have helped—but advanced kidney cancer is not curable. Even the newest drugs give the patient, at most, a few more weeks of life. At the same time, it is understandable that both the husband and the wife (and apparently Moore) assume that the insurer was merely trying to save money.
After all, when it comes to making coverage decisions based on medical evidence, for-profit insurers have a pretty spotty record. In the 1990s, when insurers said they were trying to “manage care,” many were simply “managing costs.” For example, some decided which drugs to include in their formularies based simply on whether the manufacturer would give them a deep discount. In return for the discount, the insurance company would assure the drug-maker that it would not cover a competing product.. This had nothing to do with which drug was more effective.
As I suggest below (see my most recent post on MedPac ) the public will always be suspicious of decisions made by for-profit insurers—even when their decisions are based on sound medical evidence. For-profit insurers just don’t have the political or moral standing to make these judgments. (By contrast, most patients are much more comfortable with Medicare’s coverage decisions—which is why we need a federal agency testing and comparing the effectiveness of new treatments. )
But if Moore skips over the problems of overt treatment it may be because he knows that this at this point more Americans are worried about undertreatment. And to be fair, no one could examine all of the problems in our dysfunctional healthcare system in a single film. What is important is that Moore says what he says loudly and clearly. He tells a vivid, memorable story—and in the process, he has managed to spur the national conversation about healthcare reform.
This is what scares people like Peter Chowka. If people begin talking about health care, they may begin to think about it. It may even occur to them that perhaps it wouldn’t be so terrible to borrow a few ideas from other countries. As Moore points out, “If another country builds a better car, we buy it. If they make a better wine, we drink it. If they have better healthcare . . . what’s our problem? “
"It’s conceivable, Moore suggests, that we might even learn something from Cuba, a country that spends 1/27 of what we do on care. Of course the film’s Cuban adventure is controversial—and purposefully so. I’ve written about it here on TPM café where I recount a very funny story Moore tells about his experience with Standards & Practices at NBC-- a tale which shows that he knew exactly what he was doing when he took part of “Sicko’s” cast to Cuba.) Looking back on “Sicko” Moore says, “I could have played it safe, I know. I could have gone to Ireland. . . . Everyone loves the Irish …. But you know you have to get people’s attention.”
And, as usual, Michael Moore has succeeded in doing just that.
UPDATE: A couple Moore on Sicko. A balanced enough review in the NY Times from Philip Boffey, and an interesting one (sadly firewalled) by Timothy Egan about whether Americans live better than Italians (My take has always been that rich Americans live better than rich Italians) -- Matthew
July 4, 2007 in Policy | Permalink
Comments
Medical insurance. Just another way to make people frightened. Just another way to go left. Just another way to take away the just rewards of the gainfully employed. Wait in long lines or establish Argentine's medical system where the rich get treated and the sheep get nothing. Our system is the product of the Social Security system. A fine left wing institution that led the way to off balance market forces in a free enterprise system and replaced it with a "I pay for you as your personal slave system". The answer is not for the government to have more of the people's money but rather for the system to cater to the market forces of the system that it was intended to cover. If the system was limited to the means of the common individual prices would drop and care would be the same with the knowledge that our doctors would not have 10 cars and 2 homes. A point that is largely left out of Mr. Moore's film. When market forces are artifically supported, they will eventually fall. One other point that should be noted, all of those nations that have universial health care sacrifice other areas that receive little or no attention. For example, Canadian could not fight off the invision of a blind army because it has woefully underfunded its national defense relying instead upon the good old United States for its national defense. Its medical care system would change very rapidly but for that fact. Perhaps those on the left should see the forrest through the trees. Moore is a leftist captialist of the worst sort and should be given his just reward, a tree and a rope.
Posted by: Rolf C. Schuetz, Jr. | Jul 3, 2007 9:40:04 AM
Ms. Mahar would have her readers believe that only private insurers "spend a great deal of time designing policies that will limit their losses”. However, the governments of Canada and the UK achieve precisely the same outcome by limiting the supply of medical care available (specialists, technology, OR hours).
When it comes to health care financing, either an individual makes his own medical decisions - or a gatekeeper representing a 3rd party does it for him. The latter results in a veterinary ethic of medicine in which the standard of medical care is not what's in the interests of the patient - but what is in the interest of the payer - or owner.
Posted by: Stuart Browning | Jul 3, 2007 9:54:51 AM
Moore is a leftist captialist of the worst sort and should be given his just reward, a tree and a rope.
Rolf! This is way more worthy of Castro, Sadaam or Bin Laden than it is of an ostensible defender of the American way!
Whatever happened to freedom of expression, the marketplace of ideas, I-reject-what-you-say-but-would-defend-to-the-death-your-right-to-say-it... all of those things that people fled theocratic Europe for to come here and build a new way of life!!! A way of life where people could speak their mind without fear of violent reprisals because of the perceived treason of independent thought!
Posted by: MacMic | Jul 3, 2007 12:08:15 PM
Great review, Maggie! Agree that what Moore does best is to draw attention to the reform debate "loudly and clearly." Another loud and clear commentator is economist Uwe Reinhardt, who has been interviewed about SICKO on NPR. Twenty years ago, Uwe wrote compellingly that the US, which tends to its uninsured via charity care, needs to look to the efforts of other countries and consider its "implicit social contract" re health care in a more explicit manner. Health Affairs Blog muses today on SICKO, the social contract, and communitarianism.
Posted by: Jane Hiebert-White | Jul 3, 2007 12:12:35 PM
"As I suggest below (see my most recent post on MedPac ) the public will always be suspicious of decisions made by for-profit insurers—even when their decisions are based on sound medical evidence. For-profit insurers just don’t have the political or moral standing to make these judgments. (By contrast, most patients are much more comfortable with Medicare’s coverage decisions—which is why we need a federal agency testing and comparing the effectiveness of new treatments. )"
For another view of who people trust for health advice, recent JD Power poll results:
Results of a JD Power poll asking consumers which entities they trust for health information
This poll suggests people trust Medicare less than they trust health plans - and that they don't trust either very much.
Posted by: gjudd | Jul 3, 2007 12:25:29 PM
So Stuart are you arguing that care in the US is not rationed?
Posted by: matt | Jul 3, 2007 12:36:27 PM
Perhaps saddest of all is that only 17% trust their spouses (!).
Posted by: matt | Jul 3, 2007 12:38:27 PM
matt - you must be drinking Mr. Holt's kool-aid. The only rationing of health care in the U.S. is done in government programs and hospitals - just like Canada & the U.K.
The whole "rationing by price" garbage is a non-starter. Rationing by physical force - as single-payer regimes do - is the issue. If you want to see real government rationing - then a look at my film "Two Women" (http://freemarketcure.com/twowomen.php).
Posted by: Stuart Browning | Jul 3, 2007 12:50:42 PM
Very nice review Maggie. I saw the film yesterday. When it wasn't tragic it was very funny.
> In the 1990s, when insurers said they were trying
> to “manage care,” many were simply “managing costs.”
To be fair, in the 1980s when managed care was often about managing care, uber-individualistic Americans hated the limitations on the choice to buy flat-of-the-curve medicine implied by management and (egged-on by the whole medical establishment) got managed care effectively outlawed. And everyone got what they deserved in the 1990s.
> look at my film "Two Women"
OK, I have. It wasn't funny at all, and I'm glad its only 4:32 long.
This circumstance is a good thing to avoid, thank you so much for pointing it out. Owattans (not Canadians generally) seem to have made their Rawlsian choice. I am sure we will make a different one.
> Rationing by physical force - ... - is the issue.
Says who? You? chortle! For most people there is no difference among "rationing by price" and "rationing by obfuscation" and "rationing by physical force". Perhaps you'd be happier if the dear woman had lost her bladder because of an inability to pay. Upon reflection, I don't think there's any "perhaps" about it.
Fortunately, Canada is not the only possible model. If it were, we should have to invent a new one.
t
Posted by: Tom Leith | Jul 3, 2007 2:26:40 PM
Interesting. The topic here is Sicko. In that movie, Moore advocates abolishing private insurance. There are only three countries that have: Canada, North Korea and Cuba.
There seems to be a general agreement here on this blog with the stances taken in Sicko. So, if Canada is not the model, then I have to assume that you like one of the other two systems.
Posted by: Stuart Browning | Jul 3, 2007 2:42:56 PM
Haven't seen the movie yet but saw an interview with Moore about it.
Moore says that he advocates "taking the best" from other countries to re-make the US system. Everything in Canada, England, France, etc. isn't perfect...but a lot is good. And what we have is clearly not working.
Believe it or not, rationing is alive and well in the US health system. A couple of years ago, that noted left-wing publication, the WSJ, had a series on it. Here's a link:
http://www.rmi.gsu.edu/rmi/faculty/klein/RMI_3500/Readings/Other/HC_HospitalRationing.htm
Posted by: matt | Jul 3, 2007 3:05:07 PM
Posted by: Stuart Browning
"Interesting. The topic here is Sicko. In that movie, Moore advocates abolishing private insurance. There are only three countries that have: Canada, North Korea and Cuba."
Really Stuart? How about this:
"Private Health Insurance" (In Canada)
"While the health care system in Canada covers basic services, including primary care physicians and hospitals, there are many services that are not covered. These include things like dental services, optometrists, and prescription medications."
"Private health insurance plans are usually offered as part of employee benefit packages in many companies. Incentives usually include vision and dental care. Alternatively, Canadians can purchase insurance packages from private insurance providers."
"The main reason many choose to purchase private insurance is to supplement primary health coverage. For those requiring services that may not be covered under provincial health insurance such as corrective lenses, medications, or home care, a private insurance plan offsets such medical expenses."
"While private insurance can benefit those with certain needs, many Canadians choose to rely exclusively on the public health system."
The reason private health insurance in Canada is not necessary is because the single pay government run health insurance system covers most everything.
Stuart Browning's usual Limbaugh rant.
Posted by: Peter | Jul 3, 2007 5:25:15 PM
Maybe there needs be more price and quality variation? Lower the med-school standards, invite doctors from other nations and let them practice here.
I can go to Costa Rica and get a week's vacation as well as all my teeth capped for half the cost here. Why not bring that doctor here and save the carbon footprint of my medical tourism? Sure, he might not earn enough to drive a Bently, but he can roll around in a perfectly good Audi just like the UK doctor.
Posted by: Eugene | Jul 3, 2007 5:32:02 PM
Mr. Holt,
It's been a while since I have posted - but I have been lurking and enjoying the blog.
I have seen SiCKO twice - and even though it is full of Mr. Moore's half-truths and one-sided arguments - I think it is a great film. Yes, I am a physician and a Republican, but the healthcare crisis in the U.S. needs this attention. If we are lucky, our elected officials might see that healthcare DOES matter to patients (and voters).
This film was NOT made for doctors, nurses, hospital administrators, and especially NOT for those of us that read healthcare blogs. It was made for Joe Sixpack who is completely clueless about how this business works both here and abroad. Trust me - Mr. Sixpack needs to be educated, even if it comes from Michael Moore.
Mr. Moore asks "Who are we? Is this what we've become?" and as a society, that is a question that needs to be answered and addressed. Hopefully, this film will rekindle dialogue in healthcare policy that has been sorely absent for the past 15 years.
Posted by: Scott Robertson | Jul 3, 2007 7:19:01 PM
Peter, you're quite amusing.
Canadians, by law, cannot buy insurance for anything covered by the public system - essentially all the things that would kill you.
I find you just barely worth responding to.
Posted by: Stuart Browning | Jul 3, 2007 8:16:22 PM
I am astounded that in all of the discussion over health care, no one seems to have read
"To Err is Human: Building A Safer Health System"
available here-
http://www.iom.edu/CMS/8089/5575.aspx
The major cost factors in health care are those surrounding the topic of quality.
Too much care, too little, too much of the wrong kind, uneven practices; the list is horrendously long.
My second recommendation for those who are seriously interested in ways to raise the quality of care in this country,is to read
"Redefining Health Care, Creating Value-Based Competition on Results" by Michael E. Porter and Elizabeth Olmsted Teisberg.
When we stop paying the low quality providers for giving terrible service we will have made a tremendous step in reducing costs.
When all consumers are able to obtain informed opinion and assistance in selecting only quality providers, we will have made another tremendous step in reducing costs.
Michael Moore's film seems to be more about rabble rousing than raising facts.
Posted by: Wade Vernier | Jul 3, 2007 8:45:33 PM
Thanks for giving this issue the attention it deserves. As health care costs continue to soar, I expect more and more employers will bail out of providing health care insurance the way they have pensions. The number without insurance will increase. Visits to emergency departments for non-emergency care will go up and ED's are in trouble as it is. I don't think insurance mandates or HSA's help those that can't afford or qualify for insurance. I'm afraid a single-payer system, as most other developed countries have, makes the most sense to me, by potentially reducing cost and complexity, coupled with some nominal co-pay to cut down on "frivolous" visits. However, I really don't know if we can afford that or if we can afford not to do it, and of course I am leary of government ineptitude.
MacMic,
Do you not find it ironic that in your first sentence you call for the death of Michael Moore for making "Sicko" and in your closing paragraph you bemoan the loss of
the ideal of being able to speak one's mind without fear of reprisal? Just asking.
Posted by: Bob | Jul 3, 2007 9:54:03 PM
I agree with Mr. Vernier; most of these comments seem to be the same tired my-payment-system-vs.-your-payment-system argument frequently seen on this blog. (Complete with exchange of veiled insults whenever certain unnamed commenters are involved.) I couldn't care less about Mr. Moore or his movie except to the extent that he stimulates discussion, as others point out.
Mr. Vernier, however, has hit the nail on the head that we need to be concerned most with quality and efficiency of delivery, both sorely lacking now. Also, I find a concept in Porter's book interesting - the proposed transformation of "insurance" companies into patient advocate companies who seek out the best VALUE care (defined as highest quality per dollar spent) for their patients. (This is in contradistinction to "managed care" which truly was, as Ms. Mahar says, "managed costs.")
These companies, not poor Joe Blow patient, have the infrastructure to discover this information and use it to both save themselves money and get the best care for their covered patients. If only they would show some leadership and actually do it instead of avoiding sick people and whining all the while.
Posted by: bev M.D. | Jul 3, 2007 10:07:16 PM
"Canadians, by law, cannot buy insurance for anything covered by the public system"
Why would they want to, they're already covered?
Posted by: Peter | Jul 4, 2007 4:44:55 AM
"This film was NOT made for doctors, nurses, hospital administrators, and especially NOT for those of us that read healthcare blogs. It was made for Joe Sixpack who is completely clueless about how this business works both here and abroad. Trust me - Mr. Sixpack needs to be educated, even if it comes from Michael Moore."
A great post Scott. But Mr. Sixpack also needs to be educated in the political system that prolongs the lack of a healthcare solution. Mr. Sixpack needs to be educated in the "follow-the-money" politics that prevent solutions for all but the monied. That was also the theme in Moore's "Fahrenheit 911". But I think Mr. Sixpack already knows this and this is why he has tuned out of politics and voting.
Posted by: Peter | Jul 4, 2007 4:55:47 AM
"Maybe there needs be more price and quality variation? Lower the med-school standards, invite doctors from other nations and let them practice here.
I can go to Costa Rica and get a week's vacation as well as all my teeth capped for half the cost here. Why not bring that doctor here and save the carbon footprint of my medical tourism? Sure, he might not earn enough to drive a Bently, but he can roll around in a perfectly good Audi just like the UK doctor."
USA takes in more foreign doctors than all other nations COMBINED. The USA is the easiest nation of any in the industrialized world for immigrant doctors to enter. Over 40% of all doctors in the USA are foreign born.
USA is in the top 20% of industrialized nations in terms of doctors per capita.
Conclusion: the USA has plenty of doctors, and we keep stealing docs from 3rd world countries whose healthcare systems are FAR WORSE than ours; in fact most of them have no healthcare system at ALL. We are poaching their best and brightest and as a result their healthcare delivery system is non-existant.
Posted by: joe blow | Jul 4, 2007 8:27:44 AM
"Maybe there needs be more price and quality variation? Lower the med-school standards, invite doctors from other nations and let them practice here.
I can go to Costa Rica and get a week's vacation as well as all my teeth capped for half the cost here. Why not bring that doctor here and save the carbon footprint of my medical tourism? Sure, he might not earn enough to drive a Bently, but he can roll around in a perfectly good Audi just like the UK doctor."
USA takes in more foreign doctors than all other nations COMBINED. The USA is the easiest nation of any in the industrialized world for immigrant doctors to enter. Over 40% of all doctors in the USA are foreign born.
USA is in the top 20% of industrialized nations in terms of doctors per capita.
Conclusion: the USA has plenty of doctors, and we keep stealing docs from 3rd world countries whose healthcare systems are FAR WORSE than ours; in fact most of them have no healthcare system at ALL. We are poaching their best and brightest and as a result their healthcare delivery system is non-existant.
Posted by: joe blow | Jul 4, 2007 8:28:18 AM
Michael Moore always goes over the top. It is best to regard him as a latter day Hogarth; he exaggerates for effect. The greatest charge against American Medicine is that it does not get value for money - but that is America; value for money is not a priority. If it were no-one would be driving SUVs.
Let no one think that a single-payer system is the perfect answer. The British NHS has plenty of flaws - I have practised in it for 40 years. Some of the problems derive from too much government interference, some from too much influence from pharmaceutical companies and some are a consequence of the greed of doctors. Monpolies have their drawbacks and all professions are conspiracies against the laity. Nevertheless, For all its flaws it gets much better value for money than the American system, and for all but a very few, a standard of care that is as good as or better than that in America. There are just as many nurses per head of population, but only half as many doctors. When I see doctors' letters from America I am amazed at the extraneous detail that they contain. Whether this is about covering their backs or to justify their fee I can't ascertain.
Posted by: Terry Hamblin | Jul 4, 2007 8:32:51 AM
Excellent movie from Michael Moore..Its clearly highlighted the problems and holes in the Medical policy in the US.Hope government will not look it as a criticism, rather take it as a guide to give better policy to peoples...
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Posted by: sakthi | Jul 4, 2007 9:52:30 AM
Thank you for your comments.
Let me respond to a few of them:
First, Terry, thanks for giving us an insider's look at the U.K. system--it's especially helpful becomes it comes from a professoinal working within the system. What you say confirms what I have found in my research: health care systems in other developed countries all have their flaws--and patients have complaints-- but the majority of doctors and patients seems to agree that they would not trade their system for ours.
There is one exception: specialists in other countries who know that they could be making much more money in the U.S. are sometimes deeply resentful of the fact that they goverment is making an effort to contain costs. They're making, say, $200,000 a year and they feel they should be making $500,000. . .
The other thing I've noticed is that U.S. doctors are far more critcal of our system than the average U.S. citizen. (See Bev M.D. and Scott Robertson above) This is, no doubt, becuause the average citizen is not sick most of the time, while the average doctor sees what is happening to U.S. healthcare day in, day out.
On foreign doctors: Joe Blow is right, we are already importing a large number of doctors, and when we take them from developing countries, we are taking physicians who are badly needed at home . . . Moreover,
we have enough doctors in virtually all specialties except family medicine, General Practice, and pediatrics. Because these areas are not as well paid as other specialties (another problem in our system--and a reason why we have less preventive care) fewer med students choose family medicine, etc.
On Michael Porter's book: Porter and Olmstead are right to recognize that our competitive system healthcare has turned into a Hobbesian marketplace where a war of "all against all" pits hospital against hospital, doctor against hospital, hospital against insurer, etc. As they write: "competitors do not create value, they divide it. And sometimes they destroy it."
But their solutions ignore the real world of health care. For example, they suggest that chronically ill patients should be sent to "centers of excellence" --hospitals that specialize in a particular chronic disease. The problem with this idea is that, by definition, chronically ill patients need consistent, long-term care--which means that they need care near their homes. Most can't go to a center of excellence in another state and live there for the rest of their lives.
Secondly, patients do not present neatly, one chronic disease at a time. Many chronically ill patients suffer from two or three chronic diseases; they need to be treated in multi-specialty centers where doctors specializing in their various diseases can collaborate with each other.
Centers of excellence can work well for certain things, but not most chronic disease. Yet, as Porter points out, chronic disease is the biggest area of health care spending, so we need to focus on quality and efficiency in this area.
Porter and Olmstead also suggest that doctors should compete on quality, and that the best doctors could then be "rewarded" with the most patients--and thus there is no need to worry about "lifting all boats--i.e., trying to improve the quality of healthcare among doctors in the middle of the curve. The problem with that idea is that doctors with a reputation for being "the best" already have more patients than they can handle. They have only so many hours in their day. The way to improve quality is not to try to send all patients to the top 20% of doctors, but to have doctors working in multi-specialty group practices (like the Mayo Clinic ) where they are working together, all looking at the same chart, and can collobrate, with the most experienced and most talented doctors helping others.
Tom Leith-- you are right that in the 1980s managed care was more often about managing care (not costs) and Americans did not like being told "no"--even if "no" was the right answer (based on medical evidence). I'd add that in the 1980s, many more HMOs were still not-for-profit. (Before 1980, almost all were not-for-profit, then Reagan changed the law that gave not-for-profits tax breaks, and by 1990, more HMO's were for-profit).
For-profits are more likely to manage costs--and less likely to manage care--becuaue they have shareholders. And under American law, a for-profit corporation's first obligation is to make money for those shareholders.
Bev D.-- This is why I think that the idea that for-profit insurance companies will become patient advocate companies looking for the highest quality care for their customers is unrealistic. That's just not how most CEO's in the corporate world think. There are exceptions, of course, but by and large CEO's think in terms of pleasing Wall Street, and because WAll Street is not patient, this leads to short-term thinking.
Aiming for high quality and efficiency would require long-term thinking. For exaple, a truly enlightened insurer would think about helping hospitals and doctors pay for electronic medical records, knowing that,despite high upfront costs over the long term,these records would reduce errors and help avoid waste. But so far as know, the only insurers who are helping to pay for EMRs are not-for-profits.
By contrast, within the world of for-profit insurance, most CEOs are focued on making sure that quarterly earnings meet Wall Street's expectations-- so that their share prices will rise and they will be rewarded with more bonsues and a richer options package.
Finally, I agree with those of you who say that Moore's movie was made for Joe Sixpack--and rightly so. We need to engage the American public in a national conversation about healthcare. And those of you who point out that value and effiency are the greatest problems are right, too. The good news is that we have plenty of money sloshing around in the system to provide good care for everyone. After all, other countries provide very good care in many areas while spending roughly half of what we do. So it's not a question of not being able to afford univereseal care-- it's a question of avoiding the wasteful care that is driven, all too often, by a quest for profits.
Posted by: Maggie Mahar | Jul 4, 2007 10:55:27 AM
Maggie,
Two comments.
First, I think you are being too hard on the private insurance sector, especially the for profits. Both for profits and non-profits are far ahead of Medicare in trying to develop premium networks, encouraging their members to use them, and making modifications in benefit design to improve the members' incentives to choose one of the more cost-effective providers. Price and quality transparency, a user friendly website, health coaches, disease management, etc. are all part of the offering which more and more employers are choosing to pay for. I get a little impatient with the constant harping about meeting Wall Street's quarterly earnings expectations, maximizing profits and CEO's earning outsize bonuses and stock options. Like any other business, they have to please customers. If they don't please enough customers enough of the time, they eventually won't have any customers left to please, and they won't have a business. According to the CBO, over 150 million Americans get their health insurance through their employer, and over 80% of those are part of groups of 50 or more. I, for one, have worked for four different companies over the last 36 years and had plenty of medical claims in the last 15 or so, yet have never had a problem with coverage or payment. While the individual insurance market has plenty of problems because of the adverse selection problem, employer based coverage is pretty darn good from what I can see.
Medicare remains well behind the curve in identifying the most cost-effective providers and encouraging beneficiaries to use them. If funding and/or legislative authority are issues, that's Congress' fault, and it does not inspire confidence that turning the whole system over to a government financed Medicare for All approach would improve matters. Even if it achieved universal coverage (certainly a good thing), it would not contain cost growth.
Second, with respect to centers of excellence, heart disease is a chronic condition. If a patient with heart disease needs a CABG or a DES, he or she is almost certainly better off receiving those procedures at a regional center of excellence. Since I've had both of these, I know something about this. At the same time, my NYC cardiologist, who is part of a multi-specialty group practice, does an excellent job in monitoring and managing my (and his other patients') condition. He knows what medications I take, does periodic blood tests, and can do the appropriate stress tests, including a stress echo when required, in his office. Centers of excellence are also probably appropriate for cancer treatment, organ transplants, and other very sophisticated surgeries.
Posted by: Barry Carol | Jul 4, 2007 1:45:26 PM
Ms. Mahar;
Thanks for your interesting comment. I agree with you that a for-profit company today cannot think beyond the next quarter's profits. But I do think the concept of "health insurance" is somewhat of an oxymoron, in that the business of insurance is to avoid risk, and everyone, bar none, will eventually get sick and die.
Therefore whatever you call the companies that eventually take over their function, they need to change their focus. They also fail to realize that improving quality DOES save money and therefore increase profit - again, as you point out, due to short-sightedness. However, I don't think that changes the basic merit of Porter et al's idea of competition based on value, even though yes, some of their implementation ideas are unrealistic.
I have thought about this a long time and have concluded that a Mayo or Cleveland Clinic type structure may be the highest quality and most efficient form of medical practice and health care delivery. It marries the doctors and the hospital, aligns the financial incentives, leads to greater internal coordination, and produces an organization with extensive experience in coordinating
with outside referring institutions - as demonstrated to my admiration bya friend of mine's recent experience with cardiac valve surgery at the Cleveland Clinic. (Porter et all also make reference to the Cleveland and Mayo clinics in their concept.) To my surprise, I also discovered the Clinic also has an ER, so one cannot argue they would only take the cream of the crop.
Perhaps there should be such "centers of excellence" strategically spaced geographically throughout the country, coordinated with affiliated community hospitals. One would have to compete to become a center of excellence in one's geographic area.
As to the form of payment for all this, I leave that to you business-type people. All I know is that, if you try to universally insure everyone in the system as it presently functions, you really will go broke no matter how you do it.
Posted by: bev M.D. | Jul 4, 2007 1:53:29 PM
Wow there's a lot of worship at the Mayo alter on this forum. Before you try to apply the Mayo model to the rest of hte nation, perhaps you'd better look at the average income in the Rochester MN area and compare it to the national average.
Furthermore, their ED runs at 70% less capacity than other similar sized urban areas because virtually everybody there has health insurance and they dont go to the ED for primary care issues.
Mayo is a great clinic, but their results arent exactly generalizable to the entire population when you consider the standard of living and income levels in Rochester are a full 1.5 standard deviations above the national mean.
Posted by: joe blow | Jul 4, 2007 3:57:54 PM
Specialists in other countries.
Surgeons practicing within the NHS in certain specialties can earn in excess of $1-1.5m on top of their NHS salary which could its self be well in excess of $200k.
Clearly their are specialties where this is simply not an option and I know of a number of professionaly who choose not to have a private practice as a matter of principle.
Primary Care physicians are now compensated extremely well but thats what happens when you send civil servants to negotiate with clincians, who ever thought that was a bright idea should be summarily shot. There was only ever going to be one loser and that would be the government and they were.
Outside of London the ability to earn enormous sums in private practice is limited but it does exist. I know of OBGYN surgeons making over $750k in private practice in one of the poorest parts of the country and his waiting list is growing.
I am not sure that I have met any physicians or surgeons angry that they earning power is being limited by political mandates. They have the choice to enter practice and if they choose a specialty where private practice is limited or non existent they can hardly blame the government for that.
I know that earnings relative to the US are lower but clinicians in the UK by and large make good livings.
If they wanted to make superb livings and that was the driver they should have gone in to finance.
Posted by: Andrew | Jul 4, 2007 4:23:03 PM
Barry and Bev M.D.
First, Barry, I realize I may seem overly cynical about for-profit insurers, but I spent 15 year of my career following Wall Street (12 of those as senior writer/senior editor at Barron's) and I can attest to the fact that the vast majority of Wall Street analysts care only about short-term earnings--and that CEOs share that vision.
As one analyst once said to me "Healthcare is a lot like the tobacco industry; the customer doesn't have much choice." If you're sick, and your doctor or hospital tells you you need something, you will do your best to buy it. You won't say, "I'll wait until the price comes down."
There are exceptions among both analysts and insurance company executives. There are very intelligent, thoughtful people who realize that the health care industry is not selling roller-skates. I quote them in my book. But, unfortunately, they are in the minority.
As for the idea that insurers have to please customers-- how many customers do you know who are pleased with their health insurance company? How many feel comfortable with the fact that, according to Bloomberg:
"The six-member Standard & Poor's 500 Managed Health Care Index rose 22 percent in the 12 months through June of this year. "UnitedHealth increased 17 percent; WellPoint, 15 percent; and Aetna, 29 percent."
There is no reason why insurers should make much higher profits than most companies in the S&P 500. And other companies (who are paying these insurers to cover their employees) simply can't afford the premiums that lead to these over-the-top double-digit profits.
Fifteen or 20 years ago, Wall Street decided that healthcare should be a "high-growth" industry--i.e. one of the most profitable industries in the U.S. And since then, drug-makers, device makers, for-profit hospitals adn insurers have been trying to live up to those expectations-- and largely succeeding. The result can be best described as "profiteering" on the sick- and the frightened-- exorbitant prices for drugs, devices and insurance.
At the same time, I totally agree that Medicare needs to do much more in terms of using evidence-based medicine to decide what to cover. The problem is Congress--and the lobbyists who own so many Congresspeople. But I'm hopeful that, as more Americans learn about the incredible power of these lobbyists over Congress, citizens will exert their own pressure on their representatives.
Bev M.D. .-- I completely agree with you that the best models for most patients are multi-specailty clinics like Mayo or the Cleveland Clinic. AS you say, it "marries the doctors and the clinic." In other words, it is about collaboration, not competition. And that is what I think our healthcare system needs-- more collaboration, less competitoin.
Thank you all for your thoughtful comments - Maggie
Posted by: Maggie Mahar | Jul 4, 2007 5:10:41 PM
rhetorical question: how long would the Mayo Clinic or Cleveland Clinic survive if those institutions only had revenue from a 'medicare-for-all' system?
One more rhetorical question: when you look at total revenues, where do the dollars at those institutions come from? and, more specifically, break down the average revenue per patient, based on how they are paying (i.e. private insurance, medicaid, medicare, cash paying domestic and foreign)...
Posted by: Eric Novack | Jul 4, 2007 6:04:37 PM
Maggie,
I'm familiar with your credentials, and I respect them. I also bought and read your book, Money Driven Medicine. I still disagree with you with regard to the for profit insurers.
I'm a Wall Street analyst myself, albeit for a large corporate pension fund with an extremely long term investment time horizon. We have stocks in our portfolio that we have literally owned for decades. Part of my current responsibility includes covering the managed care companies and the PBM's. My take is that investors want these companies to reinvest their free cash flow wisely to grow the business. We want them to make sensible acquisitions at reasonable prices to which they can add value once they own them. We like them to buy back their own stock when they think it is undervalued. We like them to invest in technology to make themselves more efficient and to more precisely forecast their medical cost trend. We want them to raise rates enough to cover their increase in medical cost trend and maintain a fair profit margin. We do NOT encourage them to drive profits by denying coverage to insureds. Besides, if they tried to do that, the non-profit insurers, including all of the Blues except for the 14 plans owned by Wellpoint, along with Kaiser, Harvard-Pilgrim, Tufts, Medica, etc. would eat their lunch. The non-profit insurers, by the way, still control between 30% and 40% of the private health insurance marketplace.
On the subject of pleasing customers, the primary customers are the employers as you well know, and most of the larger employers self insure. They just engage insurers to provide claims processing, network access, and, perhaps, disease management. Most people I know who work for large employers (including federal, state and local public sector employees) are generally pleased with their coverage, though they are concerned about rising costs and the pressure it puts on wage growth. The individual insurance market, by contrast, borders on the dysfunctional. In community rating states, young, healthy people will pay over $4,000 per year for single coverage, and many choose not to buy the coverage even if they can afford it because they think it's a poor value. In underwritten states, insurers do indeed try to avoid covering sick people, but healthy people can buy coverage quite cheaply.
I still think the employer based system could be built upon by providing default coverage for those who lose their jobs, work for themselves or in tiny businesses that can't afford coverage, people who retiree before becoming eligible for Medicare and anyone else who falls between the cracks. Premiums could be scaled to income while employers above a threshold size could be required to provide health insurance or pay into a fund to help finance taxpayer subsidized coverage. I could live with taxpayer funded vouchers or even Senator Wyden's approach, though I think large employers provide good natural pools with enough healthy people to make the system work. Medicare for All is NOT the answer, in my opinion.
Posted by: Barry Carol | Jul 4, 2007 6:30:17 PM
A redirect to Maggie ( I am appreciative of the time you took to read my comment) on Porter and Teisberg's suggestions about sending patients to only the best providers-
I seem to recall, and I'll watch for the citation as I read through their tome for the 5th time, that they were suggesting that by having a higher authority (a body modeled on the Institute of Medicine) mandate that all providers look to the results achieved by the superior providers and mimic, imitate, follow, in short, learn from those experts, through published results, then every one who is constitutionally unable to learn, or won’t or can’t will need to retrain, find another field or retire, hopefully making room for the better motivated, happier newly initiated provider. This is labeled process compliance and aspiring providers will look to those good ideas, well designed procedures that save time, money, lives and improve the quality of care; these better practices will disseminate on the wings of competition to provide care to more people as more providers learn . As Porter and Teisberg point out
“There is a fine line between difffusing best practices and standardizing medicine. The current rates of medical errors and inappropriate standards of care are unacceptable, so diffusion of guidelines to enocurage appropriate practice is essential . . .[This] is just a tool to enhance the true goal-improving risk-adjusted results.” p. 124. It seems to me that the scenario you outline in the example of the Mayo clinic is something straight out of Porter and Teisberg’s line of reasoning.
Just a passing thought in summary-there are three major players in the health care arena-providers, consumers and health care plans(including the publicly supported ones like Medicare). They all commit grievous sins; and I'll just name one for each-there are many that each player commits.
1.Providers live in a world of cottages and spinning wheels, forcing patients to go door to door to gather care.
2. Patients-consumers- refuse to educate themselves on health care options as completely as they are able-easier to let someone else do all the work while American Idol is on and the beer is still flowing from the tap.
3. Health care plans are lost somewhere over the rainbow in a maze of Byzantine claim forms and zero sum competition-the question for them, which they never really ask, is competition about what? Better customer service? Hah!
Well it's been fun and keep looking up!
Posted by: Wade Vernier | Jul 4, 2007 6:33:09 PM
Joe Blow;
I was actually referring to the Cleveland Clinic in most of my comments above, including the observation regarding having an ER. (I really don't know much about the Mayo except generalities.) I imagine the situation in Cleveland is different than that in Rochester. Again, however, I have no data on how busy the Cleveland's ER is.
Dr Novak;
I do not know the answer to your second question. Do you? The point I was trying to make is a plea to not take competition out of the equation, however one chooses to pay for it.
Posted by: bev M.D. | Jul 4, 2007 8:31:00 PM
Bev- I would like to defer the question to Ms. Mahar, who, I hope has some good idea since she touts those institutions as the paragon of medical care...
Posted by: Eric Novack | Jul 4, 2007 9:49:55 PM
Stuart Browning writes:
> In [SiCKO], Moore advocates
> abolishing private insurance.
Nonsense. Browning here is inventing a "fact" to use as a premise in another of his specious arguments.
t
Posted by: Tom Leith | Jul 4, 2007 10:27:03 PM
Do we really care what Michael Moore advocates? C'mon boys, let's get on issue.
Posted by: jane blow | Jul 5, 2007 5:19:44 AM
Tom, That's news to me.
I guess all the interviews and TV appearances in which he has recently advocated outlawing private insurance were not broadcast in your parallel universe.
Posted by: Stuart Browning | Jul 5, 2007 6:02:20 AM
Tom-- read the actual language of Sheila Keuhl's bill, and the mirror legislation in Arizona (HB 2677)--- this is the type of 'reform' that Mr. Moore purports to support.
Private insurance- beyond that-- privately paying for 'covered services' (which as Peter has implied can be attributed to nearly everything but purely cosmetic surgery) is against the law. That is not interpretation of the bill-- the langauge is directly there.
Maggie- would you address my basic questions posed earlier in the comments? thank you.
Posted by: Eric Novack | Jul 5, 2007 7:17:26 AM
Thanks to Maggie for a great review and to all for an interesting discussion.
I still haven't seen the movie, but hopefully will soon. However, it's clear that Canada and Cuba are exceptions here in that there is no private insurance to help you jump the queue. In the UK there is, and as one commenter points out, it helps certain specialists make a very nice lifestyle on the side from their NHS jobs, and acts as a release valve so that richer people don't have to wait in the queue.
However the key point about all those systems is that you can restrain overall costs and cover everyone in some form of social insurance pool without forcing the "do I pay to have my finger reattached" decision on patients at the point of care. That's the crucial difference, which even if Moore doesn't make it too clearly is the point that needs to get out to the public.
Posted by: Matthew Holt | Jul 5, 2007 8:58:56 AM
> I guess all the interviews and TV appearances...
Browning has here changed the subject. Typical.
Browning said Moore in the film advocates abolishing private insurance. He doesn't. Browning has read his own prejudices into film, and so I have good reason to think he has read them as well into all the interviews and TV appearances.
Dr. Novack, you say Moore supports legislation of the "type" sponsored by Sheila Keuhl. What is the discriminator of type for Moore? Do you know?
I have read the language of the bill here and have not seen any provision making private payment illegal, but for now I will take your word for it that its there. If this provision were removed, would it be for Moore a different "type" of legislation? How about for you?
FWIW, I think its a poor bill containing a great deal of stupidity and a non-starter to boot. I think its being floated as a way to beat up on industry evildoers, not because anyone thinks it has a realistic chance, or is a particularly good idea. It ought to be rejected, and in the end I think it will be. But it will get people talking — its the legislative equivalent of a Michael Moore film.
t
Posted by: Tom Leith | Jul 5, 2007 9:57:35 AM
Matthew, Eric and Barry . .
Matthew--thank you. And do see the movie!
Eric-
Do you know how to Google? I hate to sound testy, but it does make me grouchy when someone treats me like a human encyclopedia asking me: ?when you look at total revenues [at Mayo and the Cleveland Clinc], where do the dollars at those institutions come from? and, more specifically,[can you] break down the average revenue per patient, based on how they are paying (i.e. private insurance, medicaid, medicare, cash paying domestic and foreign)...??
Nevertheless, I did a little reserach and in short this is what I discovered: Although many people assume that the Mayo Clinic mainly treats wealthy people (many of them from abroad), the truth is that nearly 80% of its patients come from the 5 states closest to Rochester,Minn.--and more than half come from a 120-mile radius.
Many are ordinary people. Some are uninsured. If they live in Minnesota and earn less than $125,000, Mayo gives them a discount. In addition , last year Mayo provided $214 million in unreimbursed care (charity care and care for Medicaid patients that wasn't fully paid for) against $5,300 million that it took in as revenue for medical services.
Bottom line: If we had Medicare-for-all Mayo would have made an additional $214 million.
In addition, many private insurers refuse to cover Mayo (because it won't play ball give them big discounts) or they make customers pay higher premiums if they pick a "tier" that includes Mayo. If we had Medicare -for- all, Mayo would not have to deal with this problem. (Medicare pays all providers in a particular geographic location the seem rates--it does not play the discount game.)
Medicare for all also would mean that Mayo (and other hospitals) could save a fortune in paperwork. Rather that filling out dozens of different forms for dozens of insurers, they would deal with one form--Medicare's.
Finally, as to the Cleveland Clinic--last year the cost of unreimbursed and charity care went up 5.6%--which suggests that they, too, could use the fiancial relief that would come with everyone being insured.
Barry--
On employer-based insurance-- employers are voting with their feet. As the WSJ reported in April: "Sure nearly 60% of Americans still get health insurance on the job. But even in a growing economy with a tight labor market, employer coverage is eroding. Fifteen years ago, says Joseph Antos of the conservative American Enterprise Institute, 'large employers were concerned about rising health spending, but they were not leading the march to a big solution.' Now they want out."
On what Wall Street wants. As you point out pension fund managers are a separate breed: they take the long view. But the pages of papers like the WSJ would not be filled with quarterly earnings estimates if most money-managers (and their clients) thought that way.
As to whether investors want insurers to avoid providing needed coverage in order to save money, see the recent story from Bloomberg cut and pasted below. It is a largely positive story about how insurers are beginning to make money selling cheap policies to young people that avoid certain potentially expensive and risky areas--like maternity benefits. As we all know, many young women don't plan to get pregnant--but do anway, and often then decide to go ahead and have the baby. Without maternity benefits will they get appropriate pre-natal care? Is it good national health care policy to sell insurace policies that don't include maternity benefits to young women of child-bearing age?
While the Bloomberg story includes a few lines of caveats toward the end ("critics say") this is a story written from the point of view of investors who will be happy to hear that insurers are finding a new source of profits . . .
*************************
WellPoint Seizes Lead in Cheap U.S. Health Insurance (Update1)
By Avram Goldstein
June 14 (Bloomberg) -- Aetna Inc. and WellPoint Inc. are competing to sell no-frills health plans to a generation of so- called young immortals, Americans ages 18 to 34 who don't have medical insurance because they doubt they'll need it.
Aetna, WellPoint and about 160 other U.S. insurance providers see future sales growth in these 19 million young adults. The companies are offering policies with monthly premiums of $39 to $160, hundreds less than other plans. Insurers keep costs low by requiring customers to pay as much as $5,000 of their medical bills before coverage kicks in.
WellPoint, the top U.S. provider of individual health plans, may gain the most from the expanding market. Young adults are the fastest-growing segment of the 45 million Americans without medical coverage. If everyone in the group bought a policy, insurers would gain $25 billion in annual sales, said Sheryl Skolnick, an analyst with CRT Capital Group LLC.
``I don't know how any self-respecting, for-profit, shareholder-owned company can leave that kind of market share and profit on the table,'' said Skolnick, in Stamford, Connecticut.
The companies pitching plans to young adults include UnitedHealth Group Inc. of Minnetonka, Minnesota, the largest U.S. insurer; WellPoint of Indianapolis; Aetna, of Hartford, Connecticut; and the San Francisco-based nonprofit Blue Shield of California. Philadelphia-based Cigna Corp. and Medica, a Minneapolis-based nonprofit, plan to join the competition.
Health Insurance Stocks
While health insurance stocks haven't increased yet from the young immortals market, the record of the insurance broker eHealth Inc. of Mountain View, California, suggests they may. Shares of eHealth have gained 30 percent from an initial public offering in October through yesterday. The shares fell 45 cents, or 2.5 percent, to $17.83 at 9:42 a.m. New York time in Nasdaq Stock Market composite trading.
EHealth says it sold $36.1 million in policies to the age group in 2006, 59 percent of its revenue, up from $23.8 million, or 57 percent, the previous year.
Shares of medical insurance providers have risen this year from expanding sales of private plans sponsored by Medicare, the U.S. health program for the elderly and disabled, said A.M. Best Co. analyst Sally Rosen. Revenue for publicly traded health insurers increased 31 percent in 2006 to $225 billion, she said.
The six-member Standard & Poor's 500 Managed Health Care Index rose 22 percent in the 12 months through yesterday. UnitedHealth increased 17 percent; WellPoint, 15 percent; and Aetna, 29 percent. All three are rated ``sector outperform'' by CIBC World Markets analyst Carl McDonald.
Shares of UnitedHealth fell 22 cents to $52.89 at 9:43 a.m. in New York Stock Exchange composite trading. WellPoint shares rose 45 cents to $81.82, and Aetna shares fell 21 cents to $51.23.
WellPoint's Lead
WellPoint has the most at stake in selling policies to young people and is using Internet ads to sell its low-cost Tonik- branded health plans to them. Through its ownership of Blue Cross-Blue Shield plans in 14 states, the company has 2.5 million individual policy holders of all ages, compared with UnitedHealth's 700,000, Aetna's 240,000 and Humana's 190,000, according to estimates by analyst Brian Wright at Jefferies & Co. in New York.
Insurers don't break out sales to individuals in reporting earnings and declined to provide the information.
From 2000 to 2005, individual health policies sold to young adults increased 6.2 percent to 3.8 million, based on U.S. Census data, while the number of people without coverage climbed 24 percent.
Insurance providers need the young individual customers to provide new revenue as employers cut back on purchases of group policies, the industry's main source of profit. The proportion of Americans covered by their companies fell to 59 percent in 2006 from 63 percent in 2000, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation of Menlo Park, California.
Group Insurance Shrinking
``Insurers would much rather be in the group insurance business, but it's been drying up,'' said Jonathan Gruber, an economics professor and insurance expert at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge.
Health insurance providers are also ``trolling for new business'' to prepare for a time when the U.S. government or states may encourage or require that everyone have coverage, said analyst Rick Byrne.
``It's going to take a government mandate to move the individual market,'' said Byrne of HealthLeaders-Interstudy, a managed-care research firm based in Nashville, Tennessee.
President George W. Bush has encouraged enrollment in tax- free health savings accounts that enable people with high- deductible health policies to set aside money to pay their out- of-pocket medical expenses. Enrollment in the plans hasn't grown at the pace Bush envisioned.
Consignment Store Worker
Robert A. Nielsen, 25, works in a Salt Lake City consignment store that doesn't offer a health plan. He was uninsured for a year and a half before buying a policy seven months ago from the nonprofit Regence Group of Portland, Oregon.
``I've been meaning to get to it for a long time, and finally just enough fear and concern caught up with me,'' Nielsen said in a telephone interview
An online search led him to a policy with a $91 monthly premium, a $1,000 deductible and a $3,500 annual limit on out-of- pocket expenses. Nielsen pays $5 for generic prescription drugs and 25 percent of the price for brand-name medicines. An emergency-room visit would cost $75 plus 20 percent of the bill after Nielsen satisfies the deductible.
Marketing to young adults will make a new generation familiar with health insurance, industry executives say.
`People We Need'
``They're exactly the people we need in the insurance pools,'' said Bob Hurley, spokesman for eHealth, in a telephone interview. ``Their money supports those that have higher health care needs.''
The key to success is avoiding the sickest customers and accurately estimating claims payments to doctors and hospitals.
``These plans can be pretty profitable if underwritten correctly'' because the health risks of young people are fewer and can be more reliably predicted, said Thomas A. Carroll, an analyst with Stifel Nicolaus Capital Markets in Baltimore.
WellPoint has introduced its Tonik line of insurance for young adults in six states since 2004. Five states will be added this year.
The company's Tonik Web site has pop-art images of young people, including a woman sticking out her pierced tongue, and marketing slogans that jump and blink against backdrops of cobalt and chartreuse.
``What you say and how you say it is almost as important as the benefits'' in marketing to young adults, said Jude Thompson, WellPoint's president of business for individuals under 65.
`Thrill-Seeker'
In California, WellPoint sells Tonik policies called Thrill- Seeker ($77 a month with a $5,000 deductible), Part-Time Daredevil ($87 with a $3,000 deductible) and Calculated Risk- Taker ($106 with a $1,500 deductible.) In addition to major medical coverage, Tonik provides dental, vision and generic drug benefits and several doctor's office visits a year. Maternity benefits are excluded.
Tonik inspired WellPoint to plan similar marketing aimed at Latinos and retirees who are too young for Medicare, Thompson said.
Critics say the policies do more harm than good, making it more difficult for the U.S. to find ways to cover older patients.
``At the end of the day, what have we achieved?'' said Chris Jennings, who was senior health policy adviser to President Bill Clinton, in a telephone interview. ``These companies are solving the problems of the healthy.''
To prevent such ``cream-skimming'' of the least risky patients, insurers should be required to set prices for individual policies solely by location, not age, said Bob Laszewski, a Washington health policy consultant.
Higher in New York
That's the law in six states including New York. As a result, monthly premiums in those states are higher. One plan sold in New York City starts at $256 a month, without drug benefits, according to eHealth.
By contrast, John Rael, a 24-year-old actor in Hollywood, California, pays $120 a month for a WellPoint plan with a $1,500 annual deductible. He said it's worth the money because he doesn't feel immortal.
``With a certain injury, you could be $50,000 in debt instantly,'' said Rael. ``We're all kind of one step away from total disaster.''
To contact the reporter on this story: Avram Goldstein in Washington at agoldstein1@bloomberg.net .
Last Updated: June 14, 2007 09:48 EDT
Posted by: Maggie Mahar | Jul 5, 2007 12:05:34 PM
The story from Bloomberg (I wondered what ever happened to Av Goldstein after he trashed the hospital where I used to practice in the Washington Post in 1999) sounds like those Homeowner's Warranties that sellers advertise as conveying when they sell a house - they sound good but don't actually pay for anything when you need it. They would cover a bad auto accident (which IS a significant cause of mortality/morbidity in this age group) but that's about all.
Barry, I am the one from Paul Levy's blog who thinks you should be on the committee to reform health care. (: However, in this case I have to agree with Maggie; the insurance companies are NOT out to cover sick people; you have been lucky with your health problems because, no doubt, you work for a company which provides Cadillac insurance. I am in the individual market which, as you note, is a mess and getting worse.
If you had your health problems in that setting your premiums would be out of sight by now. Count your blessings, but don't expect them to extend very far. I believe employer-sponsored insurance is a losing cause. Beyond that, I do not have enough data to know what's best - except (soapbox again), we need to fix the delivery system first, then the payment system, or at least concurrently.
Posted by: bev M.D. | Jul 5, 2007 1:24:00 PM
Maggie,
I appreciate both your detailed response(s) and your patience.
Here is my perception of what advocates of single payer / Medicare for All see as the benefits of that approach:
1. Universal and guaranteed coverage. Can't be taken away. No link to employment. One pool.
2. Lower administrative costs.
3. Lower reimbursement rates for doctors, hospitals, drugs, devices, etc. based on market power.
Here are the issues that trouble me:
1. There has been no effort to speak to how such a system would be financed. Whether it's via a payroll tax, value added tax, higher income taxes or some combination of all three, how would the broad middle class be impacted vs what they are paying now? Moreover, to the extent that such a system envisions much higher taxes on upper income people, it does not speak to the potential adverse impact on investment and risk taking.
2. Administrative cost savings are almost certainly wildly overstated. All of the rhetoric regarding the administrative waste in the current system is grossly exaggerated, especially as it relates to large employers.
3. Medicare can get away with cost shifting to the private sector under the current system. It could no longer do that if it covered everyone. Hospitals in particular claims that they could not continue to deliver services to the same quality standard if they had to take Medicare rates from all comers even if there were no uncompensated care.
4. To the extent that doctors' income is squeezed further, we could, over the intermediate term, see an acceleration of retirements and, longer term, a decline in the quality of people interested in becoming a doctor.
5. The government has proven itself totally incapable of controlling costs or utilization of medical services. The early predictions of what the Medicare program would cost were way off base (far too low).
6. It is difficult for government programs to innovate and respond to changes in technology. I note that it took Medicare 40 years to get Congress to enact a prescription drug benefit which was an unimportant issue when the original legislation passed in 1965 but became far more important later. I also note that Medicare requires a deductible of at about $1,000 for each hospitalization and a 20% copay for Part B services with no out-of-pocket maximum. Many seniors cannot afford a supplemental policy to cover most of these costs which partly explains why Medicare Advantage is increasingly popular.
Conclusion:
I think we are better off if we preserve as much choice as possible and a strong role for private insurers. I'm more than willing to accept somewhat higher administrative costs to accomplish that.
As you, I, and others have pointed out before, Medicare also has a lot of work to do in the areas of evidence based medicine and comparative effectiveness. Some soul searching by the society with respect to end of life care, along with malpractice litigation reform (health courts), implementation of electronic medical records and much more robust price and quality transparency would all contribute toward reduced utilization and less waste.
Posted by: Barry Carol | Jul 5, 2007 2:55:06 PM
I've often said that if you put Barry, me and Eric Novack in a room together and locked the door until we were done, you'd eventually get a plan that would solve most of our problems.
Of course we'd be shot on the way out of the door!
Posted by: Matthew Holt | Jul 5, 2007 2:58:29 PM
"4. To the extent that doctors' income is squeezed further, we could, over the intermediate term, see an acceleration of retirements and, longer term, a decline in the quality of people interested in becoming a doctor."
It's not as if there's not widespread discontent among physicians with the current healthcare non-system...even with physician income ranking as the highest among all jobs in the US, what percentage of physicians would recommend medicine to their children?
Other countries seem to maintain an adequate supply of physicians (especially primary care) and clinicians of high enough quality to result in superior health system rankings...while paying them much less than in the US. What can we learn from others?
If being a physician didn't bring with it an expectation of massive medical school bills and accompanying income, would enough Americans still want to be doctors? Would the "new generation" of docs be different than the last?
Posted by: matt | Jul 5, 2007 3:59:07 PM
"I think we are better off if we preserve as much choice as possible and a strong role for private insurers."
Same system as we have now, no change. Just what the present profit takers want. Ever heard the song "Waist Deep in Big Muddy", by Pete Seeger?
Posted by: Peter | Jul 5, 2007 4:17:45 PM
Matt, Matthew Holt, Bev and Barry--
Matthew--Can I be in the room too? (Don't mind getting shot as long as you stipulate that we will come up with the best solution.)
Matt- I do think that the cost of Med School in the U.S. has a lot to do with why our doctors feel they need so much higher salaries. The other factor is that CEO compensation in the U.S. has spiralled to an obscene point--and now defines wealth.
Doctors compare themselves to CEOs. As one doctor said to me-- "I spent a longer time in school than they did. I'm much smarter than most of them are-- so why are they paid so much more?" When doctors read about CEOs's earning $7 million, they feel very dissatisfied with a salary of , say, $500,000 to $700,000.
But the biggest problem, I think, is the cost of medical school. Surprisingly, there are only 2 applicants for every place in U.S. med schools--in large part because the debt that most med students take on narrows the field of those willing to apply . Unless you've come from a pretty wealthy family, the idea of taking on that much debt is just overwhelming. (If you're from a wealthy family, your parents may well pay for you--or assure you that they will help you in the future--with a downpaymet on a house, an inheritance, etc.)
And because med school is so expensive, very few students are willing to become family docs . In other countries, the income gap between specialists and general practitioners is much, much less.
Bev and Barry--I'll reply tomorrow
Posted by: Maggie Mahar | Jul 5, 2007 4:31:37 PM
Maggie:
You make some excellent points here - especially about the waste in American healthcare.
As I watched SiCKO, I felt a great deal of empathy for the people in the film, since my late husband Tim and I were also victims of this failing system. Tim's brain tumor was diagnosed in 1990, and even with our non-HMO, "Cadillac" insurance policy, we were shocked to discover that we were definitely NOT completely covered.
In fact, we were left nearly broke.
But during this time, I witnessed so many instances of both substandard treatment and terrible waste.
Substandard treatment and waste are things Michael Moore never mentions in SiCKO. As a matter of fact, on both Larry King’s and Dave Letterman’s shows, he said that we have wonderful healthcare in this country; it’s just that too many people can’t afford it.
This, those of us who have dealt with the system know, is simply not true.
My husband and I saw lots of medication errors, a real lack of caring on the part of both doctors and nurses, and all-around sloppy care. I wrote about this is my review of SiCKO on my HonestMedicine.com blog.
And you hit the nail on the head when you wrote about how our system wastes money. As I watched the segment in SiCKO about the man who was denied a potentially “life-saving” bone marrow transplant, I asked myself: "Would the transplant have given this man just a few more weeks of life? And if so, at what cost?" And when I mention cost here, I am actually referring to the pain and stress of an incapacitating surgery -- NOT the financial cost.
My husband endured numerous rounds of debilitating chemotherapy for his brain tumor. It was only after he was finished with his treatments that I did some research -- and discovered that the chemo most probably did not even cross the blood brain barrier!
Was this care -- or waste? It certainly was unpleasant.
In the film, Moore suggests many times that chemotherapy is a "life saving" treatment. I wish he had read some of the articles and blog comments, both here and on the Healthy Skepticism website about the Chemotherapy Drug Concession, which allows oncologists to make a hefty profit from the chemotherapy they deliver. (Please see Greg Pawelski's take on the situation on this blog at http://www.thehealthcareblog.com/the_health_care_blog/2005/04/pharmaphysician.html, and on the Healthy Skepticism website at http://www.healthyskepticism.org/news/2007/Jun.php .) Even MSNBC wrote about the chemo concession. (See http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14944098/ ).
And one important study, "The contribution of cytotoxic chemotherapy to 5-year survival in adult malignancies," published in December 2004 in “Clinical Oncology,” concluded that "the overall contribution of curative and adjuvant cytotoxic chemotherapy to 5-year survival in adults was estimated to be 2.3% in Australia and 2.1% in the USA." And: “it is clear that cytotoxic chemotherapy only makes a minor contribution to cancer survival. To justify the continued funding and availability of drugs used in cytotoxic chemotherapy, a rigorous evaluation of the cost-effectiveness and impact on quality of life is urgently required.” (See http://301url.com/cytotox .)
I wish Michael Moore had read these articles and studies before he made SiCKO.
Yes, waste is a terrible problem in American healthcare, and it won't disappear as long as so many physicians are in the thrall of Big Pharma -- something this blog has written about many times. I cover this problem of physician’s financial ties to pharmaceutical companies more fully in both my review of SiCKO at http://www.honestmedicine.com/2007/07/michael-moores-.html, and in my 3-part article, “The JAMA Controvery,” at http://301url.com/jama-all .
I want to stress that I am NOT for insurance companies and HMOs saving money at the expense of patients. I am just not a fan of physicians telling their patients that a treatment is “life-saving,” when it may simply be lining their own pockets.
Again, thanks for your excellent take on this problem. I hope I have added something to the conversation, as well.
Julia Schopick
www.HonestMedicine.com
Posted by: Julia Schopick | Jul 5, 2007 8:18:57 PM
Maggie. The bullets are hypothetical, so long as the room is too!
Posted by: Matthew Holt | Jul 6, 2007 6:58:44 AM
Barry;
Well, you almost had me persuaded that there remains a role for profit-making in health care. Indeed, in our capitalist democracy, it seems there is no stronger method for achieving real advances than the profit incentive.
That was until I woke up this morning and read an article in the Washington Post citing two oncologists who are in physical danger after advising the FDA there was not enough evidence to approve an advanced prostate cancer treatment - not just from desperate patients, which may be understandable - but from INVESTORS in the biotech company making the drug. ( See washingtonpost.com, front page.) This is a dramatic, but predictable, escalation in the medicine-by-intimidation world brought to us by the profit-makers.
This behavior is completely unacceptable.
Posted by: bev M.D. | Jul 6, 2007 7:29:16 AM
Bev m.d., Julia, , Barry
First Bev, thank you for calling my attention to the Wshington Post story. Everyone should read it--here's the link:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/05/AR2007070502149.html.
As it happens I have done quite a bit of research on this drug (an ooncologist alerted me to the problem.) Keep in mind that no one claims that this cancer drug would "save lives" (not even the company). At the very best it will give patients a few extra months of life. At the FDA advisory panel hearing someone asked about the quality of those extra months of life, and the company replied "we didn't study that."
Of course they didin't. This is a drug for patients suffering from late-stage prostate cancer and the fact is that any extra months of life are likely to be very painful. (In the late stage the cancer often spreads to the bone.)
I read the minutes of the FDA panel hearing and what was shocking is 1) there were only two postate cancer specialists on the panel (they both voted against hte drug 2) when others on the panel began to vote against the drug the FDA's representative on the panel re-worded the question--to get positive responses.
I plan to write about Provenge on tpmcafe.com in the next day or two.
This drug is an example of the cruel waste that Julia talks about. And when she says "at what cost?"--she is right; getting Medicare and private insurers to pay for drugs like these is not just a waste of money. Such drugs also raise false hopes and expose patients to needless suffering.
Thank you, Julia for your comment--it illustrates the problems perfectly. I too wish Moore had focued on waste, but he was trying to make a film for a large audience that knows very very little about healthcare. It's easier to explain to them first that, even if they have insurance, they may not get the care they need because their insurance doesn't cover a lot of things.
Then, someone should make a second film showing how if you have very good insurance, there is a real likelihood that you will be overtreated. This is a harder idea for people to grasp. For decades we have been brainwashed into believing that more care is better care, that newer is better, that any so-called "advance" in medical technology is a miracle . .
So it's going to take some re-educatoin to get people to realize that we have two huge problems: while some people (who are uninsured and UNDERinsured)don't get the care they need, other people (who are well-insured or are on Medicare) often are over-treated.
Barry--Many of your questions come down to cost: how much would universal care cost and who is going to pay for it?
Here's my short answer: if you look at the waste in our system, and if you look at the fact that we spend roughly twice as much as other developed countries who provide as good and often better care to all of their citizens, it seems pretty clear that we don't have to spend More to cover everyone. We need to spend what we are now spending MORE WISELY.
If we refuse to spend twice as much for drugs and every device if we refuse to cover drugs, devices and treatments until there is solid medical evidence that they are better than what we already have; if we use some of those savings to invest in the electronic medical records that would eliminate many medication errors and many redundant tests, if we took an unbiased look at the fees Medicare now pays the highest-paid specialists and took some of that money to raise fees for family docs and internists who provide preventive care (something that Medicare is already planning on doing) . . . the savings would allow us to give everyone the care they need. We could provide care equivalent to what both Medicare and what Medigap policies cover.
Keep in mind we are spending twice as much as other countries who cover everyone. If they can do it on a shoestring, why can't we do it while spending twice as much?
How would we finance the system? Big employers have already made it clear that the majority would rather spend what they are spending today on employee health insurance and pay it in the form of a tax that goes into a federal healthcare fund. Individuals could be taxed,on a progressive basis,so that the average middle-class American spent roughly what he spends today in health care premiums and deductibles. (I'd suggest taxing both earned income plus a small tax on capital gains.)
Hospitals that say they couldn't afford to take Medicare rates from everyone are lying. Most private insurers don't pay that much more than Medicare--as you know, private insurers negotiate as hard as they can for disounts. Medicaid, on the other hand, does pay significantly less than Medicare and insurers, but udner national health insurance, most reformers want to fold Medicaid into Medicare and pay the same rates.
The biggest fiancialproblem that hospitals have is uncompensated care. Under national health insurance, there would be no unpaid bills would have insurance to cover everything that is medically necessary. . The only hospitals that would be "losers" are those that now provide very little charity care.
Would we stifle innovation? No. First, drug-makers spend about twice as much advertising, PR, focus groups , lobbying, etc. as they do on research. Much of the most innovative reserach today is done by the govt-(and by small companies) -not by big Pharma. (See Dr. Jerry Avorn's excellent book "Powerful Medicines" on all of this.)
Secondly, much resarch shows that when it comes to "bleeding edge" innovation by drugmakers and device-makers, we've reached a point of diminishing returns. We made great strides from the fifties up to the mid-nineties; since then we've had very, very few real "break-throughs." See for example: "Is Technological Change In Medicine Always Worth It? The Case Of Acute Myocardial Infarction by
Jonathan S. Skinner, et. al. in Health Affairs. Here's the abstract
" We examine Medicare costs and survival gains for acute myocardial infarction(AMI) [heart attack victims] during 1986–2002. As David Cutler and Mark McClellan did in earlier work, we find that overall gains in post-AMI survival more than justified the increases in costs during this period. Since 1996, however, survival gains have stagnated, while spending has continued to increase. We also consider changes in spending and outcomes at the regional level. Regions experiencing the largest spending gains were not those realizing the greatest improvements in survival. Factors yielding the greatest benefits to health were not the factors that drove up costs, and vice versa.
________________________________________
Finally, would some people decide not to become doctors (or retire early)if they thought they wouldn't make as much money as in the past? Most likely. And we'd be lucky to lose them. We don't need more physicians who go into medicine for the money. These are the folks who are driving up costs with their overtreatment Let them become lawyers.
When managed care became popular, people realized that doctors salaries would flatten out--and medical schools say that they saw a change in who goes into medicine (more women, for one) and by and large they see it as a positive change.
Posted by: Maggie Mahar | Jul 6, 2007 10:57:30 AM
P.S.-- It occurs to me that I should make one thing clear: I don't expect that we can realize the savings from cutting waste in our healthcare system immediately.
So healthcare reform definitely will need a large amount of "seed money"--but I think that rolling back the Bush tax cuts for wealthier citizens,combined with re-writing the Medicare Advantage law so that we're no longer paying private insurers a premium to take Medicare patients would do the trick.
Posted by: Maggie Mahar | Jul 6, 2007 11:10:22 AM
This Blog has been an excellent read.
It never ceases to amaze me, the amount of energy that can go into a project just to avoid doing the right thing. The best, simplest, least costly, most effective thing we could do is expand what has been working so well for years, Medicare. You get sick, you get care, and the caregiver gets paid. Nothing could be simpler. I've been on it for four years and it works beautifully.
But that's probably its problem. Politicians don't like "simple" when it affects a major source of campaign cash. Which should tell us that we are getting screwed over in many ways by our corrupt political system.
To paraphrase a famous quote, "America will always do the right thing, but only after failing at everything else."
Posted by: Jack Lohman | Jul 6, 2007 12:51:29 PM
Good thoughts Maggie.
> Keep in mind we are spending twice
> as much as other countries who cover everyone.
The trouble when you say "we spend", is that there is no "we". Well, there is, but people don't recognize it.
For most people here, there is only "I" as in "I get health insurance at work" and "I paid FICA taxes all my life" and "I can't stand freeloaders." This is the fundamental difference between the (Calvinist) USA and (whether they like it these days or not, Catholic) Europe. Here everything is about personal liberty in the negative sense of freedom from coersion and a presumption of just deserts in life. There, some things are about solidarity.
Most everything else you have considered is 1980's style managed care all over again, and that didn't go so well last time.
Jack is right, from his point of view Medicare is simplicity itself. But its not sustainable.
t
Posted by: Tom Leith | Jul 6, 2007 3:06:59 PM
dMaggie,
Good analysis and summary.
With respect to the so-called waste in the system, I think one of the most doable strategies would be if Medicare takes a more rigorous stance with respect to which new drugs and devices it will cover. For those it deems not sufficiently cost-effective, private insurers probably won't cover them either. While manufacturers of the drugs and devices, along with some patients who are seriously ill and out of options will protest, somebody has to say no sometimes. The experience you alluded to in an earlier comment regarding the wrath that fell upon the AHRQ when it suggested we were doing too much back surgery some years back suggests that nothing will be easy when it comes to cost control. I've said many times that our whole approach to end of life care needs serious reevaluation. A thorough study of other countries' approach to this issue would probably be instructive.
I think electronic records is an area where taxpayer funding (or at least subsidies) would be extremely helpful. It might be easiest to start with the hospitals since there are only about 6,000 or so of them, and that is where much of the duplicate testing and medication errors occur because multiple doctors treating the same patient don't know what each other is doing.
I'm more skeptical of our ability to reduce specialist compensation except to the extent that we can do it as a by-product of reduced utilization through practice pattern convergence and evidence based medicine backed up with financial rewards for best practices and penalties for over treatment.
On changing the way medical education is financed, if doctors emerged from medical school debt free, I wonder how much less income they would be willing to accept. If I had the opportunity to not incur $300,000 of debt that would otherwise have to be repaid out of after tax income, I might be willing to accept $30,000 less per year in beginning of career dollars. This would give society a 10% return on the capital that it relieved me from having to invest in myself. This is looking at the issue from an investor's perspective. I would be curious about how others view it. Doctors' income more generally will always be strongly influenced by what they can earn in other fields like business and law. That opportunity cost is considerably higher here than in Europe and Canada which helps to account for their considerably higher incomes here than in those other countries.
As for lower brand name drug prices, the government would have to back up its negotiating with a willingness to employ a restrictive formulary like the VA does. Seniors in particular might balk at that.
Regarding healthcare system financing, I was actually glad to hear you say that employers would prefer to redirect their current health insurance spending into a healthcare tax. An employer payroll tax is my favorite approach because it is closest to the current system and has the virtue of transparency. I think it is important for people to understand how much they are paying for healthcare, and the more visible the payment, the better. Employer provided health insurance is part of compensation, but many people don't understand that. The employee could pay a much smaller payroll tax that, as you say, approximates the current employee share of the premium.
For the seed money to cover the currently uninsured, I support higher taxes on dividends and capital gains. My preference would be to make both qualified dividends and capital gains part of the income base for the purpose of figuring the Alternative Minimum Tax (AMT). For very high income people, the effect would be to raise the current tax rate from 15% to 28%. I think the current top ordinary income rate of 35% is high enough. I note that even under the Clinton tax increase of 1993, it was sold as a top rate of 36% and a temporary surcharge of 10% bringing the actual top rate to 39.6%. The surcharge was to be removed when the deficit was brought under control. The budget went into surplus in the late 1990's, but, in typical fashion, there was never any effort to repeal the surcharge, which gives rise to the saying "There's nothing more permanent than a temporary tax."
Having said all that, I still would prefer a voucher system to Medicare for All even if it were a bit more expensive. Choice is a good thing and is consistent with our culture.
Posted by: Barry Carol | Jul 6, 2007 4:44:40 PM
This is a letter that I have been sending to various public officials and media outlets. It was published in the Northeast Times, recently in Philadelphia, PA.
Candidates proposing universal health care are inspiring. However, we need
to fix the health care system as well.
As a patient and a former employee (I used to work at a famous hospital on
Long Island) of the health care system - I have first-hand knowledge on how
the care system works in America.
Close to 100,000 people die each year in hospitals due to medical errors.
The hospital I worked at had too much administrative waste. There was
endless paperwork in processing patient information.
Many of the positions, especially in the non-medical areas, were filled
through nepotism. Many of the supervisors and mid-level managers at this
hospital were concerned about how they looked to top administrators, rather
then perform thier jobs effectively. (CYA was the major activity).
A question I would like to ask the general public, particularly doctors -
How come doctors never challenge other doctors?
Right after I graduated college I was “confused,” doing drugs, and getting into trouble; so my parents sent me to psychiatrist. The psychiatrist said was I “mentally ill” and he sent me to neurologist for my tests. (Our family doctor stated at first I did not need any tests, and then he changed his mind.) The neurologist examined my brain and said I was fine. I just needed to “grow up.”
Posted by: Larry Nelson | Jul 6, 2007 5:57:30 PM
Jack, Tom and Barry--
Jack-- I agree. I sometimes think that if we want healthcare reform, first we need campaign finance reform.
The problem is that campaign finance reform would be
even harder to pass--for obvious reasons. But I do think that if we (mainstream media, bloggers, etc.) make it clear to the American public just how much power health care lobbyists have--and how they use it (not to promote our health)--more Americans might begin to realize Medicare for everyone really is the simplest answer.
Tom--
I agree that Europeans take a collective view of problems while we tend to emphasize the individual. And you're probably right this is, in part, due to our Calvinist heritage--but also, I think, because historically, "we" in the U.S. have never been under the kind of pressure that, say, the U.K, France and many other European countries faced during World War II.
Under such circmstances, people learn to pull together.
But I think that now,the U.S. is facing pressures that we have never had to face before--both economically and politically. This could mean that, at last, we will learn to say "we" instead of "I've got mine, Jack."
Barry--
I greatly appreciate the amount of time and thought that you have put into this debate. And you have persuaded me that we are not as far apart as I once thought. This suggests that if more people talked, in depth and detail, about healthcare reform, more of us could come together to find a common solution.
I agree that the most "doable" solution, at the outset, if for Medicare to take a more rigorous stance about what drugs and devices it will cover. And private insurers would definitely be happy to follow Medicare's lead.
You're right that we need to re-think our approach to end-of-life care. We could learn a lot from other countries about palliative care (which, as you know, does not mean giving up on the patient, or ceasing to treat, but it does mean a) keeping him/her out of pain and b) letting the patient choose whether they want to continue treatment. ) Research shows that, today, in the U.S,. too many patients continue treaments they don't want becuause they don't want to disapoint their doctors or "let down" their families.
On medical student debt--I think that we could make major improvements in our health care system if we fully funded the type of scholarships which we had in the 1970s--scholarships that gave students full tuition in return for agreeing to practice in parts of the country where they were most needed for a certain number of years. (Think of the TV show "Northern Exposure.") My sister-in-law did this, and wound up staying in the rural area where she first practiced.
In terms of "opportunity cost"--I tend to disagree in this sense: While you are right, many pre-meds make their decision by comparing how much they could make as a doctor, lawyer, CEO or Indian chief, I really don't think these are the people we want in the medical profession. It is a profession--not a career you choose based on how much you will make-- but something that you "profess to"--i.e., something that you believe in.
To me, this means that you want to attract future doctors with professional values--people who realize that there is an enormous difference between being a doctor and being a divorce lawyer. You want people who like the work for its own sake--people who would be happy to do it as long as they can live comfortably.
This really does seem to be the case in counttries like France, and I have a hard time believing that intelligent, hard-working Americans are that much more greedy/materialistic than Europeans.
Re: paying lower prices for brand-name drugs. The VA formulary really is not restrictive. As you know, the VA has won rave reviews for the quality and efficiency of its care in recent years--despite the fact that its funding has not begun to keep up with the number of paitents the VA is treating.
Re: financing. I"m delighted that we are in agreement about tax-financing. And surprised that you agree with me about taxing investment income.
Though I would preferto tax capital gains rather than dividends because I would like to encourage investors to look for dividends--and encourage companies to pay out dividends. Dividends leadsto more stable returns--which is good for retirement savings. And too often, when corporate managment "invests" the money it could have paid out in dividends, it makes very stupid mistakes (mergers based on so-called "synergy," etc.)
Finally, I agree that, in many areas "choice is a good thing and consistent with our culture." But when it comes to healthcare it strikes me that the average layman is not in a good position to exercise that choice. Healthcare is just too copmlicated (not to mention the fact that when you need really expensive healthcare, you are sick, and in many cases, elderly.)
I think of the Wall Street Journal article that I read a few years ago that extolled the virtues of "consumer-driven healthcare" saying "consumers will be able to pick their hospitals the same way they pick their mutual funds." Did we learn nothing from the nineties?
Just as most of us are not in a good position to be our own money managers, most of us are not in a good position to judge whether the healthcare we are being offered is, indeed, based on solid medical evidence.
Posted by: Maggie Mahar | Jul 6, 2007 5:58:55 PM
Tom, Medicare may "currently" be unsustainable, but it could easily be dealt with. First by raising the taxation caps on $90K and allow the cap to swing as high as nessecary to pay a good share of the costs. Then by demanding that Medicare negotiate the same 50% discount the VA gets on drugs. Then by demanding that high-tech testing be done in the hospitals and not in clinics where the physicians have ownership in the equipment. And lastly, by not allowing hospitals to be opened and closed willy-nilly and impose caps on the number of, say, MRIs or CT scanners are purchased in an area.
And Maggie, campaign reform is indeed possible in a way that does not violate the 1st Amendment, and that's with public funding of campaigns (but on a voluntary basis) as they have in Arizona and Maine. I won't spend time here but take a look at www.wicleanelections.org
Posted by: Jack Lohman | Jul 6, 2007 6:31:28 PM
Maggie,
I agree that we are not all that far apart. Just as an aside, my view about taxing investment income is clearly a minority position in the industry I work in. I do believe, however, that the mega wealthy, who derive much of their income from investments, should pay at least a similar percentage of their income in taxes as their secretaries do. Their tax burden is considerably lower currently because the tax rate on qualified dividends and long term capital gains is so low compared to rates on ordinary income, and the payroll tax does not apply to investment income either.
On doctor compensation, I hear you, but I think the key is the definition of how much it takes to "live comfortably." Whatever that is, it's clearly a lot more in Manhattan than in Atlanta or Houston. Moreover, if specialists need to spend several years (or more) acquiring the training necessary to become Board Certified in their specialty, their incomes should at least reflect the opportunity cost of the income forgone during that time. Personally, I think family docs in a city with living costs in line with the national average should make at least $150K and probably closer to $200K. Double that might be reasonable for specialists, though billing rates for some might be much higher to reflect very high malpractice insurance premiums.
My comment about choice referred to choice among insurance plans, not making decisions about healthcare choices. I would like to see plenty of insurance companies trying to differentiate themselves based on customer service, deductibles, copays and scope of coverage with some minimum set of benefits defined legislatively. I also think robust price and quality transparency, along with objective, unbiased infomediaries to help consumers evaluate their treatment options would be helpful as well.
Posted by: Barry Carol | Jul 6, 2007 7:00:14 PM
Regarding physicians and income, from my experience there are very few people who go into medicine just for the money. It's just too damn hard. People forget there are long hours, night call, difficult patients, having to deal directly with death, threat of lawsuits no matter whether you actually made an error or not, worrying about making a mistake and killing somebody, on and on. Income expectation probably does, however, have some effect on chosen specialties, about 50/50 with the medical student's personality. ( One can practically look at a class and predict the future surgeons vs. internist types by the 3rd year of med school.)
It's making an income and then retrospectively having it, or your entire career, threatened that makes us defensive - just like anyone about to lose their job, or take a big pay cut. Doctors are no different than anybody on that score. We are human too.
If the income expectations were known to be lower before the student entered medical school, I do not think it would be an issue. It's the transitional generation feeling the pain, and that's happening right now, despite the popular perception of still-rich physicians all over the place. That may be part of what's leading to the current perception of doctors treating "just for the money." I'm not defending it, just observing it.
Posted by: bev M.D. | Jul 6, 2007 7:25:39 PM
Maggie;
I forgot one thing; regarding the FDA's deliberation process and evidence-based medicine. Below is an abstract from "Health Affairs"; on making the crucial distinction between EVIDENCE and JUDGEMENT. I was able to read the entire interview under a "access free for 2 weeks" deal, but the full text is no longer available. For anyone who can get it, it is very educational regarding the process of judging evidence in medicine.
Reflections On Science, Judgment, And Value In Evidence-Based Decision Making: A Conversation With David Eddy
Sean R. Tunis 1*
1 David Eddy is founder and medical director of Archimedes Inc. in Aspen, Colorado. Archimedes was founded to improve the quality and efficiency of health care by using advanced mathematics and computing methods to build realistic simulation models of physiology, diseases, and health care systems. Sean Tunis is founder and director of the Center for Medical Technology Policy (http://www.cmtpnet.org) in San Francisco.
*Corresponding author.
Abstract
Evidence-based medicine (EBM) has increasingly influenced decision making in health policy and patient care. Appropriate use of EBM in decision making requires a clear understanding of the distinct "anatomical" components of all decisions: (1) scientific evidence and (2) judgments applied to that evidence by individuals or organizations. In this interview, Sean Tunis discusses these principles with David Eddy. Tunis has provided leadership at the national level in applying EBM principles to health policy decision making at the Office of Technology Assessment, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, and now the Center for Medical Technology Policy. Eddy is cofounder and medical director of Archimedes; he is widely recognized as a seminal contributor to evidence-based medicine, helping shape the initial ideas and applying them to guidelines, coverage policies, and performance measures. [Health Affairs 26, no. 4 (2007): w500-w515 (published online 19 June 2007; 10.1377/hlthaff.26.4.w500)]
Posted by: bev M.D. | Jul 6, 2007 7:36:29 PM
I have read the original essay and the subsequent commentary and I do not believe that the commentators are on the right track. In my view, there is no doubt that the American health care system is in dire need of drastic change. I believe the best way to approach that change is to go back to the basic question of "What is health care?" I believe that health care is simply the doctor---patient relationship. On an individual basis, it is the individual relationship that a patient forms with his/her doctor and through which medical care is delivered. On a nation-wide basis health care is the sum of all these relationships, nothing more and nothing less. I think that you become mired in controversy, greed, politics, profits, annual income, and deal making when you view health care as a business. I believe our health care system needs to be changed to a structure that contains businesses which exist solely for the support of the doctor---patient relationship for every patient in America and not for their own dollar profit. Certainly any business needs good, acceptable profit margins to thrive but, in health care, when the dollar bill becomes the primary focus as opposed to actual health care,i.e., the doctor---patient relationship, we get into the difficulties that we are now experiencing. My new book, EQUAL HEALTH CARE FOR ALL (ISBN13: 978-0-9796994-0-5) available through my web site describes the kind of health care system that I am talking about. It is a system that I believe will achieve the following:
1. clear and equal access to vital, comprehensive health care for everyone living in America in an affordable manner.
2. a system which supports good, acceptable profit margins for businesses which operate within our health care system while at the same time removing greed from their modus operandi.
3. centralized electronic medical record storage.
4. major advances in handling medical malpractice.
5. major advances in medical education.
6. elimination of health insurance companies by a single payer which controls prices of services and products through tough, fair negotiation but maintains good, acceptable profit margins for the businesses involved.
7. alleviation of employers having to provide a health care benefit.
8. zero interference from the single payer with the workings of the doctor---patient relationship. This relationship, with zero financial conflict of interest on the doctor's part, becomes the driver of health care expenditure.
9. Clear, straight-forward mechanisms of funding that reveal to everyone that health care is not free. Everyone pays. However, no one has to go bankrupt in doing so or to make a choice between groceries and medicines.
10. other forward thinking concepts and ideas.
I hope that all the commentators will visit my web site and read my book. I welcome your critiques. I do not have all the answers.
One final thought: there are several "smoke and mirrors" concepts out there by which various players maintain their very profitable status quo. Some of these are as follows:
a. Socialized medicine.- a term which has been given a pejorative connotation for over the last century. It is quite possible to have a single payer system that does not ration health care. Also remember my definition of medicine. It is the doctor---patient relationship. We do not have "socialized doctor---patient relationships."
b. Cost-effectiveness.- For anyone who wishes to use this term, I want to know what are the units of measurement, how is cost effectiveness determined, and of what clinical usefulness is it within individual doctor---patient relationships?
c. Market-mediated.- this means maintain the unbridled capitalism,a.k.a., greed that currently exists within our health care economic market place.
d. Competition drives prices lower.- In my view in health care, competition drives supply that then needs to be filled with increased demand. In health care, for a truly successful system, demand needs to be driven by the doctor---patient relationship. That is simply because health care is not and can not be a business. The last century of trying to make it a business has led to our current system.
e. and other business jargon buzz words and phrases.
Doctor K.
Posted by: Doctor K | Jul 6, 2007 8:14:31 PM
Bev,
Those are very good and very fair comments about doctors' income.
The profession, however, has a somewhat arrogant image among a good portion of the public which is attributable, I think, to the following factors:
1. A general dislike of having their decisions and recommendations challenged. While doctors drive virtually all healthcare spending through hospital admissions, referrals to specialists, writing prescriptions for drugs, labs, imaging, physical therapy, etc., consulting with patients and doing procedures themselves, they generally oppose P4P and resist embracing price and quality transparency.
2. Through the AMA, they attempt to th